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Bug #4709

closed

Unable to set amateur frequencies on TK-360

Added by John Kemker almost 7 years ago. Updated almost 7 years ago.

Status:
Closed
Priority:
Normal
Assignee:
Category:
-
Target version:
-
Start date:
04/07/2017
Due date:
% Done:

100%

Estimated time:
Chirp Version:
daily
Model affected:
TK-360
Platform:
All
Debug Log:
I read the instructions above:

Description

I was given a Kenwood TK-360 (4-channel model) at the last Stone Mountain Hamfest. Finally got a USB cable and hooked it up to my desktop machine and downloaded the radio to CHIRP. When I try to change the frequency of any of the memory channels to the local (DeKalb County, GA) repeaters, I get the following error:

"Pasted memory 1 is not compatible with this radio because:
Frequency 440.700000 is out of supported range
Tx freq 445.700000 is out of supported range"

I get the same types of error for the other three frequencies, as well: 442.200000, 444.250000, & 444.900000.

How can I override the "supported range" to update my radio? I'm using CHIRP daily-20170406, (GTK 2.24.30, PyGTK 2.24.0, Python 2.7.12) under Linux Mint

OS: Linux Mint 18.1 Serena x86_64
Kernel: 4.4.0-21-generic
Shell: bash 4.3.46
Resolution: 1440x900, 1440x900
DE: Xfce
WM: Xfwm4
WM Theme: Mint-X
Theme: Mint-X [GTK2/3]
CPU: AMD FX-8120 (8) @ 3.1GHz
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 5000/6000/7350/8350 Series
Memory: 7628MiB / 8006MiB
Disk (/): 731G / 1.8T (43%)

Obviously, someone has programmed "unsupported" frequencies in this radio already.

Kenwood specifications say 450-470MHz is the frequency range for this radio.


Files

Kenwood_TK-360_20170407.img (1 KB) Kenwood_TK-360_20170407.img John Kemker, 04/07/2017 04:06 PM
debug.log.1 (39.7 KB) debug.log.1 John Kemker, 04/07/2017 04:06 PM
Kenwood_TK-360_20170407.csv (386 Bytes) Kenwood_TK-360_20170407.csv John Kemker, 04/07/2017 04:06 PM

Related issues

Related to Bug #4789: Allow Kenwood Commercial radios from series 60/60G to work off OEM limits into ham bands, but shows real OEM limits on config.ClosedPavel Milanes05/03/2017

Actions
Actions #1

Updated by Tom Hayward almost 7 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Feedback

It looks like Chirp is recognizing it as a 450-470 MHz radio and limiting it to that range. Have you had the opportunity test it on a spectrum analyzer to see how it performs on the programmed channels outside of its specified range?

Actions #2

Updated by John Kemker almost 7 years ago

No, I have not.

It is my understanding that many of these old TK-360s have been put into Amateur service. Current programmed frequencies are in that range, so obviously, it's not the radio that's refusing the change, it's the software. If it's not a "bug" then perhaps I should have posted it as a "feature request?" I don't have a Windows machine to run Kenwood's or other software, so I use CHIRP. (Prefer to support folks like CHIRP, anyway.) I originally posted on the mailing list and was told to post it as an issue.

Actions #3

Updated by Tom Hayward almost 7 years ago

We have a lot of power with Chirp. We could write 146.52 MHz into this radio if we wanted. In my opinion that power comes with the responsibility to program sensible limits where the radio transmits a clean signal. Not every Chirp user will take it upon themselves to test with a spectrum analyzer after programming. When it was written, the author of this driver chose to set the limits to those specified by Kenwood. If we are going to change them, we should do it intelligently. We should test the radio at various frequencies to see where it starts to behave poorly, then set the limit there. This might be 440 MHz, 430 MHz, or 420 MHz--I can't say without testing. Do you have access to the lab equipment to perform this test? I don't have a TK-360 here to test against.

Actions #4

Updated by John Kemker almost 7 years ago

Unfortunately, no. However, I am willing to send the radio in question to you to use for testing. (After all, I didn't pay anything for it and I can't use it on the repeaters I want to with it programmed as it is now.)

Actions #5

Updated by Tom Hayward almost 7 years ago

  • Status changed from Feedback to Resolved
  • Assignee set to Tom Hayward
  • % Done changed from 0 to 100
  • Chirp Version changed from 0.4.0 to daily
  • Platform changed from Linux to All

Okay, I just took the easy and conservative approach of changing the limit to 440. This will allow you to use it on repeaters and it's only 10 MHz out of spec, which is probably fine.

Actions #6

Updated by Pavel Milanes almost 7 years ago

Hi to all, Chirp's drivers author here for this radio.

Just for clarification:

The Chirp's driver supports all the radios and variants of them (you has a TK-360/F1 in this case) with the dealer limits, it's well known that all of this Kenwood radios can work out of the specs (OEM software complain but works) but the main question is how far from specs?

We follow a rule of just teak the band edges when we have reports of someone that can work with it and has tested a safe limit. In this case and in my experience it "must be safe" to allow going down to 440 (from 450 OEM limit)

73 de Pavel CO7WT

Actions #7

Updated by Tom Hayward almost 7 years ago

Just an update as to why nothing has been changed yet: there is an ongoing discussion between developers on the mailing list: http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_devel/2017-April/004544.html (click Next Message to read the rest)

Actions #8

Updated by Pavel Milanes almost 7 years ago

Hi,

After some developers ideas exchange there is a proposed solution for this on the issue #4789: allow a +/-4.0% over the OEM limits.

That will safely allow (based on real tests) to work near ham bands in the variants that are outside them. That Issue (#4789) will be changing the entire Serie 60/60G from Kenwood, see the issue for the list of all the radios covered.

In the specific case of the radio in this issue TK-360/F1 the OEM range is 450 to 470 Mhz, a +/- 4.0% increase will expand real limits to 432 to 488 Mhz, see the spreadsheet attachment in the #4789 Issue for the example.

73 de Pavel CO7WT.

Actions #9

Updated by Pavel Milanes almost 7 years ago

Hi John and Tom,

John, can you test the latest Chirp's build to see if it works for you now?

If so please report it here to resolve/close this issue.

73 de Pavel CO7WT.

Actions #10

Updated by Pavel Milanes almost 7 years ago

  • Status changed from Resolved to Closed

I have positive feedback about this issue being solved for good, so I will close it.

73 de Pavel CO7WT

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