Bug #9269
closedRepeaters from Repeaterbook with T-CTS and T-CTS not appearing correctly
0%
Description
Using Baofeng UV-50X2, BF-F9V2 and BF-F8HP i see the same behavior.
I am using Repeaterbook to import Repeaters. One of the repeaters requires T-CTCS and R-CTCS. When I view the data from Repeaterbook it is correct, however, when it is imported to CHIRP or copied to the Radio it isn't. The Repeater that I am seeing the issues with is K7DAD in Arizona. It uses 100.0 as the T-CTS and R-CTS tone.
The Repeaterbook for K7DAD when queried using CHIRP shows the following:
Tone Mode = Tone
Tone = 100.0
ToneSql = 100.0
Cross Mode = Tone->Tone
Duplex = '-'
Offset = 0.600000
While this is technically correct, I would still have expected to see Tone Mode as TSQL given the T-CTCS and R-CTCS tones are the same.
However, that isn't the main issue. When I import the same repeater (K7DAD) into any of the three radios I mentioned above, something seems to get lost and the data changes to:
Tone Mode = Tone
Tone = 100.0
ToneSql = 88.5
Cross Mode = Tone->Tone
Duplex = '-'
Offset = 0.600000
This is no longer valid for the K7DAD repeater. I would expect that either the ToneSQL should be 100.0 or the Tone Mode should have updated to TSQL. When i upload this to the Radios, i can also confirm that the R-CTCS is not set.
I have attached two screens of the query of the repeaterbook for K7DAD and the import from repeaterbook for K7DAD.
Files
| Repeaterbook Query K7DAD.png (34.7 KB) Repeaterbook Query K7DAD.png | K7DAD Query | ||
| Repeaterbook Import K7DAD.png (37.5 KB) Repeaterbook Import K7DAD.png | K7DAD Import | ||
| CHIRP_Tone_Modes.png (54.8 KB) CHIRP_Tone_Modes.png | |||
| Screen Shot 2021-08-11 at 11.01.48 AM.png (37.4 KB) Screen Shot 2021-08-11 at 11.01.48 AM.png | K7DAD with downlink tone. | ||
| CHIRP_Tone_Modes_2.png (62.8 KB) CHIRP_Tone_Modes_2.png | |||
| K7DAD Repeaterbook Entry.png (37.4 KB) K7DAD Repeaterbook Entry.png |
Updated by Jim Unroe over 3 years ago
- File CHIRP_Tone_Modes.png CHIRP_Tone_Modes.png added
- Status changed from New to Feedback
There is no bug here. CHIRP is working correctly and as expected.
When Tone Mode is set to Tone, only the Tone field is used to designate the TX CTCSS tone. There is no RX CTCSS tone because carrier squelch is used for RX. The ToneSql and Cross Mode fields are not used and any values in them are ignored by CHIRP when Tone Mode is set to Tone.
It is easier see how this works if, instead of looking at the Memory Properties editor, you would look at the spreadsheet style memory editor with the the "Hide Unused Fields" setting enabled (this setting is enabled by default for new CHIRP installations). As you can see from the attached screen capture, the ToneSql and Cross Mode fields are blank since they are currently unused based on the Tone Mode selection. Their values (as seen in the Memory Properties editor) are currently being ignored and do not influence the setting in the radio.
You can confirm this by checking the display of the handheld radio's. When this repeater is selected and the PTT button is not pressed, there will be no CT showing the the radio's left status display area. That means the radio is using carrier squelch for receive. Now if you tap the [*] key to put the radio into reverse mode (or press the [PTT] button causing the radio to transmit) the left status display area will now show a CT which indicates that a CTCSS tone is being used for TX. This exactly matches how the repeater settings were imported from RepeaterBook.
For more information about how the Tone Mode columns work with one another you can review the CHIRP column guides linked to from the Miklor.com "CHIRP Guides, Examples & Spreadsheets":http://www.miklor.com/COM/UV_CHIRP.php#guides Section 6.1 and 6.2 (or go directly to the CHIRP guide in the wiki area by clicking "here":http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp)./wiki/MemoryEditorColumns).
Jim KC9HI
Updated by Jonathan Hathaway over 3 years ago
Thanks Jim
The question is then, for K7DAD that does have a R-CTCS tone requirement, is it not possible to import these directly from Repeaterbook without manual intervention and changing it?
Half of the Repeaters in my area have a R-CTCS tone configured and it seems that the import function should be able to set these correctly and identify the tone mode as TSQL instead if the tones are identical, or use Tone mode=Cross if asymmetrical?
For me to get this to work as intended, I have manually changed these to Cross or TSQL.
Updated by Jonathan Hathaway over 3 years ago
Updated by Jim Unroe over 3 years ago
- File CHIRP_Tone_Modes_2.png CHIRP_Tone_Modes_2.png added
First, there is never a requirement to use a receive CTCSS tone. The use of a receive CTCSS tone is purely optional.
CHIRP is just reading the data provided by RepeaterBook. If RepeaterBook does not include the RX CTCSS tone, that is on RepeaterBook, not CHIRP.
If you want to use both a TX and RX CTCSS tone and RepeaterBook does not provide both, then yes, you will have to manually change it.
The correct way would be...
Tone Mode: TSQL
ToneSql: 100.0
Sure you could program...
Tone Mode: Cross
Tone: 100.0
ToneSql: 100.0
Cross Mode: Tone->Tone
But CHIRP will automatically switch it to the first way. Cross Mode is only used when the TX and RX tone frequencies are not the same.
There are many repeaters in the same county as the K7DAD repeater that use the 162.2 Hz CTCSS tone. You can change all of these at the same time by highlighting all memory rows requiring the same configuration and then access the Memory Properties editor to make the change. See attached screen capture.
Jim KC9HI
Updated by Jonathan Hathaway over 3 years ago
I appreciate your response Jim. The screenshots in the original issue post, show that the Repeaterbook Query shows 100.0 for both Tone and Tone SQL, but the mode stays as Tone.
When the Repeaterbook is imported to the Radio, the Tone SQL is ignored.
I have attached the Repeaterbook Screenshot that shows that repeaterbook does include the Downlink tone.
I understand that there is no specific requirement to use R-CTCS, but it makes my rig a whole lot less noisy when people aren't honoring the Band Plan in the area. Its a pain to use the import, only to then have to go and change all the R-CTCS tones so that I can focus on just repeater traffic.
The issue as i see it is that Repeaterbook does include both the Uplink and Downlink Tone. The Repeaterbook query in Chirp shows 100.0/100.0 but doesn't correctly choose TSQL or Cross. And hence when it gets imported to the radio, because TSQL or Cross aren't detected by Chirp due to the Repeaterbook information, they are ignored when the are imported to the Radio.
Updated by Jonathan Hathaway over 3 years ago
Here's the JSON Query from Repeaterbook:
@{
"State ID": "04",
"Rptr ID": "58",
"Frequency": "146.72000",
"Input Freq": "146.12000",
"PL": "100.0",
"TSQ": "100.0",
"Nearest City": "Mesa",
"Landmark": "",
"County": "Maricopa",
"State": "Arizona",
"Country": "United States",
"Lat": "33.41109848",
"Long": "-111.88600159",
"Precise": "1",
"Callsign": "K7DAD",
"Use": "OPEN",
"Operational Status": "On-air",
"ARES": "No",
"RACES": "No",
"SKYWARN": "No",
"CANWARN": "No",
"AllStar Node": "",
"EchoLink Node": "",
"IRLP Node": "",
"Wires Node": "",
"FM Analog": "Yes",
"DMR": "No",
"DMR Color Code": "",
"DMR ID": "",
"D-Star": "No",
"NXDN": "No",
"APCO P-25": "No",
"P-25 NAC": "",
"Tetra": "No",
"Tetra MCC": "",
"Tetra MNC": "",
"System Fusion": "No",
"YSF DG ID Uplink": "",
"YSF DG IS Downlink": "",
"YSF DSC": "",
"Last Update": "2019-11-09",
"Trustee": ""
}@
Updated by Jim Unroe over 3 years ago
Jonathan Hathaway wrote:
The issue as i see it is that Repeaterbook does include both the Uplink and Downlink Tone. The Repeaterbook query in Chirp shows 100.0/100.0 but doesn't correctly choose TSQL or Cross. And hence when it gets imported to the radio, because TSQL or Cross aren't detected by Chirp due to the Repeaterbook information, they are ignored when the are imported to the Radio.
Agreed. The RepeaterBook Import/Query appears to always set the Tone Mode field to Tone.
In the example below, memory rows 6, 7, and 9 should have Tone Mode set to Tone but memory row 8 should have Tone Mode set to TSQL.
6,KB6POQ,145.310000,-,0.600000,Tone,91.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00,,Scottsdale,,,, 7,W7TBC,145.330000,-,0.600000,Tone,162.2,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00,,"Phoenix, Honor Health - Deer Valley",,,, 8,N7SKT,145.430000,-,0.600000,Tone,100.0,100.0,023,NN,FM,5.00,,"Phoenix, White Tanks Mountain",,,, 9,WW7CPU,145.450000,-,0.600000,Tone,162.2,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00,,Chandler,,,,
Manually editing Tone to TSQL as shown below allows the data to be correctly imported into the radio's tab.
6,KB6POQ,145.310000,-,0.600000,Tone,91.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00,,Scottsdale,,,, 7,W7TBC,145.330000,-,0.600000,Tone,162.2,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00,,"Phoenix, Honor Health - Deer Valley",,,, 8,N7SKT,145.430000,-,0.600000,TSQL,100.0,100.0,023,NN,FM,5.00,,"Phoenix, White Tanks Mountain",,,, 9,WW7CPU,145.450000,-,0.600000,Tone,162.2,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00,,Chandler,,,,
This also is the case for when the TX and RX tones are different and the tone mode should be Cross Mode (grabbed from a RepeaterBook generated CSV file).
132,"WD7F",146.94000,-,0.60000,Tone,110.9,103.5,023,NN,FM,5,"Tucson",
Jim KC9HI
Updated by Bernhard Hailer over 2 years ago
- Status changed from Feedback to Closed
- Model affected changed from (All models) to RepeaterBook
- Platform changed from Windows to All
No more traffic on this ticket. Please let us know if we should keep this open.